'Victoria Nuland: Ukraine Can "Turn This Around," Bases Inside Russia "Should Be Fair Game"'

 Former Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland said that the U.S. should give Ukraine more long-range weapons to hit targets inside Russia during an interview with ABC's "This Week."

VICTORIA NULAND, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: I think they can certainly turn this around, Martha. But the six-month delay certainly made a difference. The frontline for Ukraine needs the artillery that we are sending. They need more air defenses. They need to be able to stop these Russian attacks that are coming from bases inside Russia. So, I think there's also a question of whether we, the United States and our allies, ought to give them more help in hitting Russian bases, which heretofore we have not been willing to do.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS: And do you think they should?

NULAND: I think if the attacks are coming directly from over the line in Russia, that those bases ought to be fair game, whether they are where missiles are being launched from or where they are where troops are being supplied from.

I think it's time for that because Russia has obviously escalated this war, including, as you said, at the beginning, attacking Russia's second city, Kharkiv, which is not on the front lines, and trying to decimate it without ever having to put a boot on the ground. So I think it is time to give the Ukrainians more help hitting these bases inside Russia.

RADDATZ: One of the reasons that the administration has hesitated is because they believe it will escalate things even further with Russia, pull the U.S. further in. Why not - why - so why do you think that's a good idea?

NULAND: Because it's Russia that has escalated this war. Russia has learned how to pull its forces back out of the range where we have allowed Ukraine to use our weapons and get our support. So, they are getting a direct advantage in this war from our hesitation, and they have escalated massively. As you know, they have flattened a third of Kharkiv without ever having to get on the ground there. So, it is time to stop that and help Ukraine push them back.

RADDATZ: You have dealt with Vladimir Putin over multiple administrations. When you look at what's happened here and what he is doing, just - just tell us what you think he is up to, besides the obvious, and what mistakes we have made with Vladimir Putin.

NULAND: Well, clearly at this point in his life, Vladimir Putin has decided that his legacy is based on restoring at least the Soviet Union, if not a larger empire for Russia. He is defining greatness for Russia in territorial terms rather than an economic or political power. And he's willing to sacrifice the future, not only of Ukraine and his relationship with the rest of the world, but of the Russian people for this crazy imperial ambition.

You know, I think the Covid period, when he was in isolation, just made him more and more paranoid, et cetera. If I had to look at one mistake we made, I think we underestimated what he was willing to do to get to this place that he wanted to get to for Russia, which is territorial and not political or economic.

RADDATZ: Secretary Blinken's trip to Ukraine certainly sent a message that the U.S. is supporting him. But what would you say to those Republicans who are still concerned about aid going there, or those Americans who say, look, we have - we have problems at home, why do we need this aid?

NULAND: Well, obviously, we have problems at home and we need to support our domestic front and our international front. But this is about more than Ukraine. And this is about more than Vladimir Putin. First of all, if Ukraine cannot survive and thrive, Putin will not stop there. He will walk towards NATO, and we will have a much larger war, because he will know that he can. And we will become directly involved.

But also, if you don't stop Putin here, a guy who has bitten off a piece of a smaller country that was not doing anything to hurt him, then it sends a message to autocrats everywhere that it's free game to invade your neighbor, et cetera. And that will send a message in Asia, it will send a message to Iran, all around the world.

So, if the United States wants to lead in this world, if we want to maintain the free and open democratic order that has served us so well, we've got to protect it abroad so that we can stay safe at home. And to remind the vast majority of this aid for Ukraine is coming right back to U.S. defense industry to build those weapons, for us, to replace the ones we're sending to Ukraine, and it provides good jobs in more than 30 states of the United States.

RADDATZ: And NATO is now considering sending trainers to Ukraine, but the U.S. has said no to that. Is that the right move?

NULAND: You know, we do a huge amount of training for Ukrainians in NATO territory, in Poland and Germany and other parts of the alliance. It is hard for Ukrainians to come out and come off the front to train. But I worry that NATO training bases inside Ukraine will become a target for Vladimir Putin. And it does directly implicate NATO on the ground, which could, as you worried about earlier, escalate the war in a different direction and cause Putin to think that NATO territory might be fair game for him.

So, I think it still makes most sense to do most of the training outside of Ukraine but to give advice inside Ukraine as the Ukrainians ask for it and need it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/05/19/victoria_nuland_ukraine_can_turn_this_around_bases_inside_russia_should_be_fair_game.html