Former President Joe Biden rambled through an October 2023 interview with special counsel Robert Hur — repeatedly losing his train of thought and struggling to recall key details of his political and personal life, including when his son died, newly released audio of the sitdown shows.
“Well, um, I, I, I, I, I, I don’t know,” Biden, then 80, responded to one question about where he would store papers related to his post-vice presidential work at the Penn Biden Center, his memoir “Promise Me, Dad” and the Cancer Moonshot initiative.
Biden sat down with Hur and co-counsel Marc Krickbaum Oct. 8-9 as part of a probe ordered by then-Attorney General Merrick Garland into the 46th president’s unlawful retention of national security papers from his time as Barack Obama’s No. 2, as well as a senator from Delaware.
The Biden administration had refused to release the audio tapes of the interviews with Hur, which were obtained by Axios on Friday, arguing that they contained protected “law enforcement materials.”
Biden, speaking slowly with his voice fading in and out, repeatedly requested assistance figuring out the years of certain events.
“This is what, 2017, 18, in that area?” he asked in response to the special counsel’s question about the post-vice presidency activities.
“Yes, sir,” Hur responded.
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The former president, pausing throughout his answer, then appeared to believe that the events of 2017 and 2018 corresponded with when he left the Senate (2009) and his son Beau Biden’s death (2015).
“Remember, in this time frame, my son is … uh … would’ve been deployed or is dying and so … it was … and by the way there were still a lot of people at the time, when I got out of the Senate, that were encouraging me to run in this period — except the president,” Biden said.
After a digression about his presidential ambitions and former President Barack Obama’s reluctance to support him, Biden said: “What was happening though was … what month did Beau die? Oh god, May 30 …”
“2015,” one of his lawyers chimed in.
“Was it 2015 he had died?” Biden asked.
“It was,” the lawyer responded.
“I think it was 2015,” Biden, still unsure, said.
The former president — still less than three minutes into his response to Hur’s question about his document storage practices — then needed to be reminded what year President Trump was elected to his first term.
“And what happened in the meantime is that uh … as … and … Trump gets elected in November of 2017?” Biden haltingly asks.
Even after an attorney clarified that Trump was elected in 2016, Biden still sounded confused.
“2016, alright so … Why do I have 2017 here?” Biden said.
“That’s when you left office — in January of 2017,” his lawyer responded.
Then Biden hesitantly asked: “That’s when Trump got sworn in, isn’t it?”
He then rambled about the title of the memoir and appeared to become emotional while discussing Beau, prompting Hur to suggest they pause for a bit after Biden trailed off.
“Sir, I’m wondering if this is a good time to take a break, briefly, would that be …” Hur asked before Biden shot down the suggestion.
“No, let me just keep going and get it done,” he insisted.
Hur’s two three-hour sessions with Biden and his legal team took place in the White House’s Map Room, where the former president’s frequent pauses are accentuated by the sound of a ticking clock in the background.
The Trump administration reportedly plans to release the complete recordings as soon as Saturday, according to Politico.
Garland was held in contempt of Congress last year over his refusal to release the tapes to lawmakers after the White House asserted Biden’s executive privilege.
Biden’s Justice Department shielded Garland from prosecution, citing longstanding policies to not charge attorney generals with contempt.
Transcripts of Hur’s interviews with Biden had been released, but Republican lawmakers had sought the tapes to determine if there were any inconsistencies between what Biden actually told the special counsel and what was transcribed.
In February 2024, Hur released a final report on the classified documents investigation that found Biden had “willfully retained and disclosed classified materials” — but he did not recommend bringing criminal charges.
The 388-page report explained that the decision not to charge the president was in part due to Biden likely being viewed by a jury as a “sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”
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